Tisha B'Av: From Humiliation to Churban — Kamtza and Bar Kamtza/Transcript

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Audio: Kamtza and Bar Kamtza (August 15, 2022)

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There is a kasha that's asked by the Achronim on the Shulchan Aruch, the Magan Avraham, Rav Yonatan Eibeshutz asks this kasha. We know that on Tisha B'Av there's an issur to learn Torah, right? Torah is mesameach lev. But the Gemara says תינוקות של בית רבן בטלו. Sure, little kids don't go to cheder. So the Achronim ask the question, what could be greater joy than not going to cheder? So there's different teirutzim. One says that the rebbe when he teaches is mesameach. But sit down, you want to sit? Sit down, let me just move this. You can't see me, it would help if I move over. Sit down. You can also sit. Maybe okay, whatever, okay fine. Anyway, so Rav Chaim, Rav Chaim Soloveitchik says that Torah is a cheftza of simcha. That when a person learns he's always besimcha, ontologically he's besimcha. That means that even if a kid hates learning he's besimcha. That's what Rav Chaim says. So if that's true, we know according to the Gemara there are certain things we're allowed to learn on Tisha B'Av, right? Kamtza and Bar Kamtza is one of the things we learn on Tisha B'Av. So why is that permitted? We're besimcha. So says Rav Chaim, that this is called the liba of Tisha B'Av. In other words, Chazal designated certain things that a person should learn on Tisha B'Av, but he says if you learn it... so what's the nafka mina between Rav Chaim and the Magan Avraham? So if you understand that simcha is an emotional thing, so says the Magan Avraham, we all pasken that when you learn you can't learn be'iyun because a person learns be'iyun and says chiddushim he's besimcha. But says Rav Chaim you can learn be'iyun. Okay, and that's how we hold like Rav Chaim on Tisha B'Av, because I hold like Rav Chaim on Tisha B'Av. Okay fine. So I'm going to learn be'iyun. Okay? So we're going to go to the Gemara in נ\"ה עמוד ב in Gittin. Amar Rabbi Yochanan... Everybody understands English here? I should have said that beforehand. Okay. Amar Rabbi Yochanan: Mai de'chsiv... אשרי אדם מפחד תמיד. Happy or fortunate is the person, right, who is always fearful. U-maksheh libo, and a person hardens his heart, which means he does things without fear, yipol b'ra'ah. Right? That type of person will end up in trouble. Okay. Then the Gemara says: אקמצא ובר קמצא חרוב ירושלים. And that's, Rashi says mefached: do'eg liros hanolad. When a person should always contemplate the consequences of his actions. שלא תהא תקלה בכך אם עשה זאת. You know, if a person does something should always think what are the consequences of what I'm doing. That's what Rabbi Yochanan says. Okay. We're going to see actually Rabbi Yochanan is going to make an important statement later on in nun vov. Okay. אקמצא ובר קמצא חרוב ירושלים. Ahu gavra. There was a certain person. Very interesting, אקמצא ובר קמצא חרוב ירושלים. The villain is ahu gavra. So it doesn't say because ahu gavra charev Yerushalayim. So Chazal basically want to say there's an irony on the confusion between אקמצא ובר קמצא חרוב ירושלים. Just like תרנגולא ותרנגולתא חרוב טור מלכא. In other words, Chazal trying to emphasize the irony of things. Okay. But anyway, אקמצא ובר קמצא חרוב ירושלים. Okay, ahu gavra. There was a certain person. Okay, who remained nameless. Ahu gavra, de'rachemei Kamtza. He had a good friend Kamtza. He liked a certain person named Kamtza. ובעל דבבא בר קמצא. And he had his enemy called Bar Kamtza. Understand when Chazal speak, it's always with like a subtle irony, okay? Like what's the נפקא מינא קמצא בר קמצא? You see almost sort of like at random, I like you, I hate you. Also why hahu gavra? I asked this previously. We don't want him to be a name. Why? Because what he did was typical of the entire generation. So I give him a name, everyone's going to say, well it's your fault. But really hahu gavra can be anybody. Hahu gavra. Okay. So like this. Okay. So you had a friend Kamtza, and enemy Bar Kamtza. Avad seudasa. He decided to make a to make a a meal, a festive meal, a banquet. Amar lei l'shamashei, so he said to his his shamash. I don't think it'd be the literal the real translation his beadle, his gabbai. He said to his gabbai, dihavi, right? He said to his gabbai, זיל אייתי לי קמצא. Go and bring me Kamtza, right? Take you take your limo and bring me Kamtza. Azal, so what happened? Ayis lei by mistake he brought up Bar Kamtza. Okay. Okay. So he makes this meal, this banquet, and who's sitting there? Bar Kamtza's sitting there. אתא אשכחיה דהוה יתיב. So comes in hahu gavra and sees Bar Kamtza sitting at the table, he's eating. Okay. אמר ליה מכדי ההוא גברא בעל דבבא דההוא גברא, okay, well right, u'mai ba'is hacha? What are you doing here? What are you doing here? You're my enemy. You're supposed to leave. Kum pook. Get out of here. So he was thrown out. So this Bar Kamtza of course was very embarrassed to be thrown out publicly. אמר ליה הואיל ואתאי, since I already came, shavkai. Let me stay. ויהיבנא לך דמי מה דאכילנא ושתינא. And I'll pay for my meal for what I'm eating, what I'm drinking. Amar lei lo. He says no. Says Rashi, shavik, I'm not going to let you stay here. Amar lei, he said to him, right, יהבנא לך דמי פלגא דסעודתא. I'll pay for half the banquet. Okay. Amar lei lo, says Rashi, יהבנא לך דמי פלגא, I'll pay for half the banquet. Amar lei lo. No deal. אמר ליה יהבנא לך דמי כולה סעודתך. I'll pay for the whole thing's on me. Amar lei lo. He said no. Naktei biyadei, he took this person took him with his hands v'okmei, stood him up, v'afkei, threw him out. אמר הואיל והוו יתבי רבנן. So the person, this Bar Kamtza said to him, since these there's there are rabbis are sitting there v'lo machu bei. And they weren't mocheh. They didn't protest. They should've protested such a terrible scene, the person embarrassed in public. שמע מינה קא ניחא להו. It must be that you know it's fine with them. איזיל איכול בהו קורצא בי מלכא. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go I'm gonna I'm gonna go to the to the king and I'm gonna I'm gonna, Rashi says malshinus, I'm gonna betray the Jews by telling something bad about the Jews. Azal, so he went, amar lei l'keisar, he said to the Caesar, maradu vach yehudayei. The Jews are revolting against against you. He made up a story. Amar lei, the Caesar said, mi yeimar? Who says they're revolting? I don't everything's quiet. Amar lei, well give them a test. Shadar lehu korbana. Well send them a korban. We know that the goyim, as Rashi, Rashi references this, you know you a goy's allowed to bring a korban, an olah to the Beis HaMikdash. שדר להו קורבנא חזי אי מקרבין ליה. And see if they sacrifice it. I guess there must've been the practice for the for the Romans to send korbanos to the Beis HaMikdash. Okay. אזל שדר בידיה עגלא תלתא. Okay. So he sent a I guess a three-year-old calf, which is I guess the choicest type of an animal. V'ada d'ka'asai. So what happened was that when they were bringing the calf this korban of the Romans to the Beis Hamikdash, שדא ביה מומא בניב שפתים. He made like a little slit in the upper lip. ואמרי לה בדוקין שבעין. Some say he made it like a little bit like in the eye. Duchsei, these are places דלדידן הוי מומא. According to the Torah, these are called a blemish or a mum, you can't bring the korban. ודדידהו לא מומא הוא, right? But you know, for the Goyim, they don't see anything wrong with it. Okay. Okay, so anyway, so he's bringing this korban, right? He's bringing this korban and this korban, they're going to bring the korban to the Beis Hamikdash and al pi halacha you can't be makriv it. But what are you supposed to do? This is going to be the test if the Jews are revolting. סבר רבנן לקרוביה משום שלום מלכות. So the rabbonim thought, look, we have no choice. We have to bring this korban because of shalom malchus, meaning that we should be at peace with the with the empire. אמר להו ר' זכריה בן אבקולס. Rabbi Zechariah ben Avkulas protested. יאמרו בעלי מומין קריבין לגבי מזבח. What's going to happen? If we bring this korban, people are going to say you're allowed to bring a korban with a mum to the mizbeiach. Can't do something like that. Okay. Okay. Savar l'miktelei. Right? So they thought, let's kill him. He's a rodef. He's endangering the Jews. סבור למיקטליה דלא ליזל. That he shouldn't go, he's killing, he's a danger. Dela lizal velima, I'm sorry. סבור למיקטליה דלא ליזל ולימא. In other words, let's kill him and we'll make sure he doesn't go back to the Caesar and say we weren't makriv the korban. אמר להו ר' זכריה יאמרו מטיל מום בקדשים יהרג. What's going to happen? People will think that a person who makes a mum in a beheima is chayav misa. Amar Rabbi Yochanan, says Rabbi Yochanan, this is the same Rabbi Yochanan that we began with, ענוותנותו של רבי זכריה בן אבקולס. The anava, I'm going to translate anava means the humility of Rabbi Zechariah ben Avkulas, hechriva es beiseinu. Destroyed the Beis Hamikdash, vesarfa es heichaleinu. Burnt the tabernacles, vegalisonu meiartzeinu. So now he blames the he blames the churban on Rabbi Zechariah ben Avkulas. Which really, it says, you know, really, it says you have to ask yourself the question, we know from the Gemara in Yoma daf tes that the second Beis Hamikdash was destroyed because of what? Sinas chinam. And actually, the story of Kamtza and Bar Kamtza. But we'll get to that. I want to understand what did the Gemara mean when it says anavtanuso, his humility. Where do we see yet a quality of humility? So you see that Rashi is bothered by that. Rashi says, right, Rashi says, anavtanuso, says Rashi, savlanuso. He was forbearing, he was tolerant. שסבל את זה ולא נהרג. He was forbearing like he was tolerant this person and didn't kill him. Okay, but it's a little difficult to understand anavtanuso means forbearing, right? So I remember that there's a Maharatz Chayes. There's a Maharatz Chayes in Gittin, right over here. One second. There's a Maharatz Chayes that actually asks the question. If you look in Likkutei Meforshim, now when I grew up, they didn't have the they used to have each meforaish separately. Now they put it all together, makes it a lot easier. So he says, ענוותנותו של רבי זכריה בן אבקולס החריבה את ביתנו. Says the Maharatz Chayes, נכנסתי ולא ידעתי מה ענוה היתה בזה. He says, what humility is there? שלא הניח לקבל קרבנות ולא להורגו. So it should have said, the Gemara shouldn't have used the mida of anava. What is it? היה לו לשנות לו מדת צדקתו. Tzidkuso or chasiduso, right? His chasidus. In other words, there's... Right, his piety v'lo anvaso. So he says ועיין רשי הגיה ושמו, somehow understood that this is difficult, v'kasav sablanuso. But says the Maharatz Chayes אכן באמת ענוה לחוד וסבלנותו לחוד. Okay? Ulam says the Maharatz Chayes, I'm going to say a different pshat. לפי הדין היה מותר להקריב בעל מום וקרוב בזה הענין שהסכנה לכל ישראל. Really be'ikar hadin they should they could have brought the korban like it says in Yoma right דלאו שכהנים בגדי כהונה שלא בשעת עבודה והיו לובשים שעטנז. He wants to say he brings a Gemara from Yoma that the kohanim right I don't know exactly what the raya is. מכל מקום עת לעשות הפרו תורתך. If there comes a time an emergency you're allowed to b'mefer hatorah. Okay, okay now. And basically he brings other rayas that if there is an eimas hamalchus, if there is a fear of the malchus, you're allowed to be עובר על לא תעשה. He brings several rayas for this. Okay. V'hainu, okay so he says now. ואינו מה דחזינן לא היה מקום להחמיר כאל דעתך דכל לא שמענו בעל מום קרב לגבי מזבח. Okay now. So what does it say like this? Muchach shemin hadin. So he wants to we see Chazal do prove this. In other words, clearly it was muttar to bring this korban. וכן מה היו אומרים כבר קמצא היו עושים גם כן. Also they would kill him too. He's called a rodef. So what does the Maharatz Chayes want to say? So why why the humility? ובזה מגובה ענותו שנתחבר לו לא ירא בנפשו לעשות בזה הלכה למעשה שאסר שלא כהלכה ולא ליחשבוהו לגובה גבוה בדעתו להיות עושה הלכה למעשה ולחזות בפורעי השעה וכיוון שכי האי דבר נמסר רק לגדולי ישראל ואינו ראוי לכך. He wants to say that somehow Zechariah ben Avkulas was anav, he didn't think he was the gadol hador. He felt that only the gadol hador can pasken a shaila to kill a person or to be a korban with a mum. That's what he wants to say. In other words, you can't bring a shaila, a very big shaila, not everybody is ra'ui to pasken every shaila. Most people are ra'ui to look on the calendar and tell you what time is hadlakas neiros. But not everybody is ra'ui to pasken such a shaila and he was anav. Yeah. But he actually stepped up and said no, other rabbis said do it and he said he was not anav enough to not respond. Why can't he what? Rabbi Yochanan called him anav, but he I guess he I guess of the people there he was the biggest rabbi but could be that he felt that he wasn't big enough to pasken such a shaila. So he should have been quiet but he said no, some other rabbis said no don't do it. Okay whatever, even they wanted an answer from him, so you know whatever you feel you're not ra'ui, maybe this, maybe that. Not big enough to say yes but big enough to say don't do it. That's what he's saying. There's a chashash either way, was trying to get out of it and saying that I'm not big enough to pasken the shaila, maybe you know maybe the gadol hador could look and understand these consequences we can go over these consequences. That's that's what the Maharatz Chayes says, okay. And I think the Iggros Moshe says something like that. But I say this in a teshuva. What's my raya? My raya is from a Tosefta in Shabbos. I think it's perek yud gimmel. There's a Tosefta in Shabbos that says the following thing. I think it's perek yud gimmel. Okay one second. My Tosefta in Shabbos, I think it's perek yud gimmel. Okay one second. Okay maybe it's yud zayin. Okay perek yud zayin. There's a Tosefta in Shabbos perek yud zayin, right you have to know Tosefta too. בית הלל אומרים מפנים על השולחן עצמות וקליפין. Beis Hillel says you're allowed to take off the table bones and shells. בית שמאי אומרים מסלק את הטבלה כולה ומנערה. Beis Shammai says no, pick up with the end you have to shake things out. Zkharya ben Avkulos! לא היה ענוותן לא כדברי שמאי ולא כדברי הלל אלא ענוותן להשליך לאחר המטה. He was machmir a bit more than Hillel and Shamai. And he took the table and ונוטלו להשליך לאחר המיטה. Basically, he didn't take it out, he sort of like dumped the table, dumped it in back of the table. He was machmir Beit Hillel v'Shamai. Amar Rabbi Yose, says Rabbi Yose, ענוותנותו של זכריה בן אבקולוס שרפה את היכלנו, the humility of Zkharya ben Avkulos destroyed the temple. It's a shaila b'moktze. So I want to say no. He was stamm machmir. He was machmir on everything. Give me zman when is likht-tsind, right, what's likht-tsind? What is it? 5 minutes to 6? Maybe 7 minutes to 6? Let's make it 10 minutes to 6. Everybody with me? He was stamm machmir in halakha. Now, these guys, everything asked, oh, it must be machmir, this, this, it's called chumros. It's called a kitza sofer. Okay, very good. You're learning that he's a machmir just for one Tosefta, one halakha? What? You're learning that he's a machmir just for one halakha? It's Chazal. What, I'm learning? This is Chazal. When, I'm learning? What Tosefta on muktze and then... No, no. No, once again. Josh, what are you talking about? We see from this Tosefta that the phrase ענוותנותו של זכריה בן אבקולוס is said when he's being machmir even on a k'zayit muktze. Okay? Yes, sir. Which means that that which the Maharatz Chajes says, that he didn't feel- that it means he didn't feel himself big enough to pasken such a shayla, is not true. Because we see he's machmir on everything. The Gemara makes the same- Chazal make the same statement even when he was machmir on muktze. It had nothing to do with not being a big person. Okay, Josh, you hear that? Thank you very much. So why is it an anava? Ah, very good. Very good. So why is it called anava? So, I think, once again, when Chazal, you see, it's very interesting that Chazal are speaking with tremendous irony. First of all, you see Chazal said והיו יושבין במתמוט מן המוחש בו. They were sitting there, they were moche. Like they didn't want to, you know, maybe you shouldn't insult them. In other words, they're making fun of them. So what's anava? It's falshe anava. It's falshe anava. What's falshe anava? ענוותנותו של זכריה בן אבקולוס... you know, he didn't respect his own ability, he didn't respect his own sechel. You know some people are afraid to use their sechel. And that's really falshe anava. That's really falshe anava. That's what's called anava. So Zkharya ben Avkulos, like, didn't trust his ability of sechel. That's what a machmir is. What's a machmir? A machmir is a person who can't think through the sugya. So he doesn't trust anything he says. Maybe this, maybe that, I'll be machmir. That's Zkharya- that's anava. It's humility, what's called falshe anava. It's false humility. It's not real humility. Real... right, real humility means you know who you are. False humility means you don't trust yourself. You're always lower than who you really are. Is that enough of a reason for... Ah, ah, ah, ah, now you ask a question. So what's wrong? Even if this was disastrous. Rabbi Yochanan has already told us that a person is supposed to think of the consequences of his acts. But I want to say like this. I want to go to the kasha you asked. You asked a kasha. Let's think. We know that Chazal tell us in Daf Tes that the- that the Beit Hamikdash was destroyed. They were lomdei Torah, they were chasidim, but it was sinat chinam. And the Netziv explains in his hakdama to Bereishit, sinat chinam means if you had a different hashkafa from them they called you an apikorsos. If you thought differently than them they called you an apikorsos. Right? So like this. So I want to claim, so the Netziv wants to claim that Bayit Sheni was the chet of the gedolim. They weren't yesharim. Bayit Rishon was the chet of the hamon am. That shfichas damim, giluy arayos, and avodah zarah. Bayis Sheini was the cheit of the gedolim. The gedolim felt you have to hold with one shita, you have a different shita, you're an apikoros. That's what it says. I want to say, both in Bayis Sheini there's two chata'im. There's a cheit of the gedolim and the cheit of the hamon am. Let me explain. And that's why it's ha-hu gavra and yasvei rabanan. The gedolim don't hate anybody, chas v'shalom, but they don't trust their own thinking. Maybe like this, maybe like that, I don't know. They don't trust their own sechel. Now, you don't trust your own sechel, okay? That means you don't respect the ability of a person to think. That's what comes out. For the hamon am, well, they don't trust their own sechel. Someone else thinks differently, you're an apikorus! Sinas chinam, because I don't trust your ability to think too. I don't respect your sechel, I don't respect who you are. So in other words, a person doesn't trust his own sechel, the consequence, what do you learn from this? That no one has a right to think, no one has a right to his own sechel. And that's called sinas chinam. I want to say that's the pshat. Yeah. Why's that from the story of Kamza and Bar Kamza? Very good, very good. But what do we see? We see these two things juxtaposed, right? What does the Gemara say? Look at Chazal. He says, right, it's very cheeky, and if you look at the lashon of the Gemara, it's almost like third person. You know what third person is? It's almost like God is thinking, he's saying over something. He says, right, right? מכדי ההוא גברא בעל דבבו דההוא גברא. Since this person is an enemy of ha-hu gavra, who is it? ha-hu gavra. What does it mean? He should have said, \"Since I don't like you.\" No. \"You're my enemy, I decided you're my enemy. Since you're my enemy, l'shem shamayim I have to throw you out of here. That's the pshat. That's sinas chinam. You want to pay for the whole meal? Doesn't make a difference though. l'shem shamayim that what? I have to throw you out of here. I don't respect, in other words, I don't respect who you are in principle. Because you're my enemy, you probably think differently than I do. So that's what the Gemara says, and the rabbis are there and they don't... it's fine with them. Why? You know, maybe you're right, you know, maybe you don't... you know, maybe it could possibly be that even if the guy is willing to pay for the whole meal, maybe since he's your enemy, throw him out. And then it comes to R' Zechariah ben Avkulas. He's finding every reason in the world not to do anything. So what I want to claim is that's the pshat, that's anvutanuso of R' Zechariah ben Avkulas. He doesn't respect his ability to think, he doesn't respect his ability to act independently. ha-hu gavra, the guy's paying for the whole meal! Maybe it should be different? No, he's my enemy, I have to throw him out. That's why the Gemara uses the third person, okay? Are you with me? That's the pshat. Okay, very good. So, there's another yesod interesting here too, is that he goes to the Caesar and tells the Caesar the Jews are revolted. The Caesar says, \"How do I know?\" He says, \"Send a korban.\" Now, let me ask you a question. According to Bar Kamza, it's very pashut. He'll send a korban, you make a little bit of a mum. So what? We know Bar Kamza is... Bar Kamza showed to us the halacha is you bring the korban or they kill you. What do you think he was doing? Nu, what do you think he was doing? R' Zechariah? No, not Zechariah, Bar Kamza. I mean, it was pashut that if you bring a korban with a mum, right, then in fact he's not going to makriv the korban. איזיה השתא דאמרת אפרושי אפרש. Why? What was Bar Kamza thinking? Bar Kamza was, he was sure they wouldn't bring the korban. So I want to claim that's the pshat: הבו יתבי רבנן ולא מיחו ביה. The rabbis were there, and they weren't moiche. Oh, they were happy with that. These types of guys are not going to... and they're going to say you don't bring the korban. In other words, you already... in other words, it wasn't that he got mad at the rabbis, he was mad at the rabbis, but why did he think his plan was going to work? Because the rabbis are sitting there... maybe we should... The Jews are revolting, they're not going to bring the Korban and he knew it would work. Everyone with me? So everything in the Gemara is in Yiddish oisgehashbend, everything is calculated. Okay, let's go further. Okay. Okay, so now we have a proof. The Jews are revolting, right? They don't bring the Korban, and he goes back and tells the Caesar. It's very interesting the Lashon of Rabbi Yochanan, just go back, החריב את ביתנו שרף את היכלנו והגליתנו מארצנו. Incredible thing, not only does he destroy the Beis HaMikdash, saraf et Heichaleinu, the Kodesh HaKodashim is burnt! This is a Chillul Hashem, right? Ve'higlanu me'artzeinu, exile! Incredible things! So that's what Rabbi Yochanan was saying in the beginning: אשרי אדם מפחד תמיד ומקשה לבו יפול ברעה. A little thing like that can have catastrophic results. He's trying to emphasize the incredible catastrophic results because of the ענוותנותו של זכריה בן אבקולס. Okay, fine. Now, שדר עלויה לנירון קיסר. So the Caesar sends what's called Neron Keisar, I don't know, Nero. כי קאתי שדא גירא למזרח. So I guess he did some type of, I don't know, what's it called, an omen or something, he shot an arrow and see what's going to happen. So he shot an arrow to the east, ata nefal b'Yerushalayim. Shada l'maarav, ata nefal b'Yerushalayim. L'arba ruchot shamayim, ata nefal b'Yerushalayim. So wherever he shot the arrow, the arrow pointed to Yerushalayim. He thought this was a bad omen. Amar lei le-yanuka. So this was common in those days, he wanted to, I guess, a type of segula, he went to a little kid: pasuk li psukecha. Tell me a pasuk that you learned today in cheder. Amar lei: ונתתי את נקמתי באדום ביד עמי ישראל. I will revenge Edom through the Jewish people. Amar, so Nero said, Caesar said: קודשא בריך הוא בעי לחרובי ביתיה ובעי לכפורי ידיה בההוא גברא. HaKadosh Baruch Hu wants to destroy His house and wants to atone it with me, behahu gavra, referring to himself as a third person. Arak. So he, I guess, he deserts, v'azal v'igayeir, becomes a ger, right? Right? Right? And what happens is, ונפק מיניה רבי מאיר. And one of his descendants is Rabbi Meir. So that's very interesting, what's that have to do with anything? Why does Rabbi Meir come from them? What is the connection between deserting and that Rabbi Meir comes from them? So there's a Gemara, actually a Gemara later on, it's also a Gemara Sanhedrin two. HaGemara omeret: בני בניו של המן למדו תורה בבני ברק. The children of Haman are teaching Torah in Bnei Brak. ובני בניו של סיסרא למדו תורה ברבים. So, why should, what is it about Haman, what did Haman do that he had the zechus that his children are teaching Torah in Bnei Brak? So I saw that Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky explains the peshat is, is that even though Haman was a rasha, he had a zechus, he did a Kiddush Hashem, because he tried to kill the Jews and he was killed, and it was a Kiddush Hashem. So he says when a person does a Kiddush Hashem, even though he doesn't do it for the proper reason, it's called a zechus. And because of that, he had the zechus that the children be teaching in Bnei Brak. The same thing he wants to say, the same thing with... with the not Nevuchadnezzar, why not Nevuchadnezzar, I think Nevuchadnezzar or Nevuchadnezzar or someone else. But that's the yesod. Yesod that if a person does something and results from that a kiddush hashem, he has a zchus that his children will be mekadesh shem shamayim. So based upon that yesod, I want to say the same thing too. This is a tremendous kiddush hashem. Now he didn't, he didn't do this because he wanted to make a kiddush hashem. He just wanted to make sure that he wouldn't they would take revenge on him, right? Hakadosh baruch hu wants to destroy the Beis HaMikdash and he wants to use me as the I'm going to be the scapegoat. He deserted. But what a kiddush hashem. And because this kiddush hashem came from him, out came Rabbi Meir. Okay. Out came from him Rabbi Meir. Why specifically Rabbi Meir? What? Why specifically Rabbi Meir? Ah, why Rabbi Meir? Very, very good. So there's a so there's a Gemara. There's a Gemara. So there's the first of all סתם משנה רבי מאיר. But what I want to say is that there's a Gemara in Eruvin י\"ג עמוד ב. The Gemara says that Rabbi Meir was it was לא יכלו לעמוד על דעתו. He was called Rabbi Nehorai because it was oso to be oimeid al daiso. What does that mean? It was in other words his reasoning was so deep it was difficult to understand what he was paskening, right? But the Gemara goes on and says that Rebbe says there, \"The reason I'm so smart, right, the reason I'm so smart is because I saw the back of Rabbi Meir. Rias an back of Rabbi Meir. I would've been smarter if I would've seen his face.\" That's what Rebbe says. Says Rebbe, interesting the Gemara there is used the lashon of Moshe Rabbeinu, wants to see, right? הראני נא את כבודך, right? v'raisa es achorai. What is but what is what is Rebbe saying there? So I understand what's going on is that the ikar nusach of the Mishnayos comes from Rabbi Meir. What Rebbe did, right, if you look at the Gemara Bava Metzia ע\"ב עמוד ב. What Rebbe did he used now what he did was he placed the pesukim with the Mishnah and the Gemara comes and darshens the Mishnayos. The Gemara comes and darshens the Mishnayos, which means that Rabbi Meir represents an end of an era. An end of an era. In other words, and because it ends that era, so therefore this was able so as the Rambam says, because of that, now the Torah would now the Torah would be would be taught through the Mishnayos. In other words, what did what did Rebbe do? What Rebbe did was he took the different Mishnayos, put them together and made one right, one text. And this, like the Rambam says, was important because this one text would serve the Jewish people in terms of the galus. In other words, it was a preparation for the galus. And Rebbe was someich on Rabbi Meir. I want to claim here the same thing too. In other words, נפק מיניה רבי מאיר. He's coming to destroy Yerushalayim. Yerushalayim's going to be destroyed. But he had the zchus that נפק מיניה רבי מאיר, that would save Klal Yisrael from the galus. And that's the mida kineged mida. Okay, fine. Now let's go further. Okay, now. So now he's sending someone else. שדריה עליה לאספסיינוס קיסר. He sends Ispasyanos, I think in English it's translated as Vespasian. I think he was the general, right? עבד מצור תלת שנין. So Vespasian is besieging Yerushalayim for three years. הוו ביה תלתא עתירי. There were three rich people: Nakdimon ben Guryon, one was Nakdimon ben Guryon, Ben Kalba Savua, right, and Ben Tzitzis Hakessas. Why were they called these names? Nakdimon ben Guryon, sheshatlo hachama ba'avuro, once time against the sun. Basically, one basically was because the sun, basically, the sun shine for him. It's a Gemara in Menachos, the sun basically shined for him one time. And Kalba Savua? He was big in hachnasas orchim שכל הנכנס לביתו ככלב ויצא כשבע. Whoever went to his house as hungry as a dog would leave satisfied. And Ben Tzitzis Hakesses? שהיה ציציתו נגררת על גבי כסתות. He had such long tzitzis they used to shlep along the, shlep along the floor. איכא דאמרי שהייתה כסתות מוטלת בין גדולי רומי. Some say that his kessasos, which means his robe, was to be found among the, the nobles of Rome. Which means he used to hang out with very, very choshuva people. חד אמר להו אנא זיינא להו בחיטי ושערי. One said, I'm going to support the city with wheat and, right, with wheat and se'orei, with barley. חד אמר להו בחמרא ובמלחא ומשחא. Some said, I'm going to, I'm going to take care, I'm going to support people with wine, salt, and mishcha, which is oil. וחד אמר להו בציבי. I'm going to guarantee you all the wood. V'shabchuhu rabbanan l'de'tzivei and somehow the Rabbis praised the person who took upon himself the tzivei, the wood. Right? דרב חסדא כל אקלידי דמזלא שלים בר מציבי. So Rav Chisda would give the keys to all of his warehouse except for tzivei. Tzivei, wood, was very, very important. We know the Gemara in Ta'anis speaks about they used to bring a korban eitzim, they'd make a yom tov from that. דאמר רב חסדא אכפי דחיטי בעי ששים אכפי דציבי הוה ליה למיזן אסתא בר חבשי. Okay? Now, there was enough to keep the city going for twenty-one years. Very good. Nothing to worry about, right? We have wood, we have wine, oil, and salt, and we have wheat and barley. Havu binhu baryonei, but there were a bunch of beryonei. What's a beryonei? Gangsters, zealots, hotheads. A bunch of hotheads. אמרו רבנן ניפוק ונעביד שלמא בהדייהו. The Rabbis said, let's compromise with the Romans, let's make shalom with them. Lo shabkinu, the hotheads said no, we don't compromise. אמרו להו ניפוק ונעביד קרבא בהדייהו. They said, let's, let's attack them. אמרו רבנן לא מסתייעא, it won't work, you're not going to win. Okay? קמו קלנהו להני אמביי דחיטי ושערי והוה כפנא. So what happened is they decided to burn the warehouses of wheat and barley and there was a famine. The hotheads, they wanted to force the people to make war. Okay? Okay, now, I'll skip over a few lines because I want to get to Yochanan ben Zakkai. Okay. Okay. Okay, now, Abba Sikra, Abba Sikra, right? That was his name. Reish baryonei de'Yerushalayim. He was the head of the hotheads. Okay? ובר אחתיה דרבי יוחנן בן זכאי and he was the son of the sister of Yochanan ben Zakkai, he was his nephew. Hava shalich leih, so Yochanan ben Zakkai sent, I want to see you, I want to speak to you, I want to meet with you. Tei be'tzinah legabai. So he came secretly. Asa, he came, אמר ליה עד אימת עבדיתו הכי וקטליתו ליה לעלמא בכפנא. How much, how long are you going to persist with this? You're going to, you're going to stop, you're going to kill the nation with starvation. How long are you going to persist with these shenanigans? אמר ליה מאי איעביד, what can I do? דאי אמינא להו מידי קטלו לי. If I say anything, they'll kill me. You see, even the head of the hotheads understood they'd do stupid things. Amar leih, okay, chazi li takanta. He says, think of, think of a plan for me. דדידי דאפיק אפשר דהוה פורקנא, that I can get out. In other words, I want you to devise a plan to let me get out, because maybe I can, I can save, save a little bit. Yochanan ben Zakkai had decided, right, that he's going to try to, try to save, he realized that things were finished, Yerushalayim was going to be destroyed, Beis Hamikdash was going to be destroyed, but he figured that maybe he could save something. Amar leih, so he said to him, nakat nafsha be'ktzirei, make believe or look like you're very sick. וליתי כל עלמא ולישיילו בך, right? And everybody's going to come and ask you how you're feeling, okay, as if you're about to die. V'ayse midi d'asli, take something which smells like a piece of meat after a few days it smells. V'agnay gabei dakh and like put it near you. So now you're dying, you're dying. Veleiymu d'nach nafshay and everyone's going to say that you died. V'la'ayil bakh talmidakh and let your talmidim carry you out. I guess they're going to carry you out outside the city to bury you. ולא ליעייל בך איניש אחרינא. But don't let anybody else carry you, just your talmidim. D'lingishan d'kala att because whoever's going to carry you is going to realize that you're not so heavy. Right? דאינהו ידעי דחייא קלי ממיסא because a dead body is usually heavier than a live body. Avad hachi, that's what Yochanan ben Zakkai said. נקטיה רבי אליעזר מצד אחד ורבי יהושע מצד אחד. R' Eliezer was from one side and R' Yehoshua from the other side. Ki matu l'pishka so they came to the gates of the city of Yerushalayim because they wanted to carry Yochanan ben Zakkai out and bury him. Bau l'mikhreyi so the guards I guess the hotheads were there, so okay, let's stab with the sword to make sure he's dead. Amar lei, right? Yomru rabbonon dakhru. So Abba Sikra says, \"What a chillul Hashem! They're going to say they stabbed their rabbis.\" Who's yomru? The Romans. It'll be a chillul Hashem. The Romans are going to say they're stabbing their rabbis. Can't make a chillul Hashem, okay. Bau l'midchafeh so they figured maybe we'll push him off the wall I think. Amar lei yomru rabbonon dakhru. The Romans are going to say they're pushing their rabbis down. So they agreed they can't do this. Paska lei bava so they opened up the gate and he leaves the city, okay. Ki matu l'hasam so now he comes he's standing in front of Vespasian, Vespasianius, right? שלמא עלך מלכא שלמא עלך מלכא. He calls him the king: \"Peace upon you the king, peace upon you the king.\" Amar lei Vespasian was a bar kishre, you see he's smart, right? Mechaiv t'rei katla. \"I should put you to death for two reasons.\" חדא דלאו מלכא אנא. First of all I'm not the king, and you're calling me the king. I'm not the king. ותו אי מלכא אנא עד השתא אמאי לא אתית לגבאי. Well if I am the king, how come you didn't come sooner? How come you waited till now? You make... so Rashi says what's the crime of calling a person the king? So Rashi says you're making fun of me. You're calling me the king, I'm not the king, you're making fun of me, right? He's a baal gaiva, but you're making fun of me because I'm not the king. Amar lei so said Yochanan ben Zakkai דקאמרת לאו מלכא אנא. That what you said you're not the king, no, even malka att. You're going to become the king soon. Why? דאי לאו מלכא את לא מימסרא ירושלים בידך. Yerushalayim would not be delivered in your hand. D'ksiv like it says, it says in a posuk, the posuk is in Yeshayahu, ve'halevanon b'adir yipol. The Lebanon, the cedar tree, will fall by the mighty one. ואין אדיר אלא מלך. The mighty one refers to a king, like it says, v'haya adiro mimenu. ואין לבנון אלא בית המקדש שנאמר ההר הטוב הזה והלבנון. So certainly you're going to become the king. ודקאמרת אי מלכא אנא אמאי לא אתית לגבאי עד השתא. And that which you want to put me to death because why? If I'm the king, going to become the king, right, how come I didn't come earlier? בריוני דאית בן לא שבקינן. The hotheads didn't let me come out. That's what he said, okay. So Vespasian is not satisfied with this second answer. Amar lei I'm going to give you a mashal. אילו חבית של דבש ודרקון כרוך עליה. Suppose you have a barrel and a snake, the snake is wrapped around the snake right coiled around the barrel. לא היו שוברין את החבית? You wouldn't break the barrel, right? In other words, basically, right? That what you you could just break the barrel. So that's what he wanted to say. You should have broken the walls of Yerushalayim to get to me. Okay? Now ishtik. He was quiet. He didn't say anything. קרא עליה רב יוסף ואיתימא רבי עקיבא, Rabbi Yosef, it doesn't say Rabbi Akiva says משיב חכמים אחור ודעתם יסכל. You see Hakadosh Baruch Hu sometimes confuses the chachamim. איבעי למימרא ליה שקלינן צבתא ושקלינן ליה לדוכתא ומקטלינן ליה לחביתא ושבקינן לה. He should have answered him, no, it's best, instead of breaking the barrel, it's best to take a stick, let the snake go on the stick, throw away the snake and then you don't break the barrel, you get the honey, you get what's in the barrel. Okay? Okay now. Now really what did they want to say, right? Says Rashi, חביתא שבקינן לה כהאי גוונא מצפים אולי נוכל להם ונוציאם ממנה והעיר קיימת ונשלמה ממך. Maybe we can get rid of the what? Maybe you can get rid of the hotheads, right? And then you don't have to break the city walls. Right? Why did Hashem confuse him? What? Why did Hashem mess him up? Well, wait, before that. I don't know why. What is Rashi explaining? What Rashi's explaining is is that like this. Rabbi Yosef and Rabbi Akiva claim that רבן יוחנן בן זכאי didn't make the right decision. What did רבן יוחנן בן זכאי come to do? What he's come to do is he felt that Yerushalayim was destroyed. It was finished. The best he could do is, we'll see this a little bit later on, the best he could do is he can save a few things and that's it. He understood that it's finished. So when the king said to him, right, gave him a mashal, what's the mashal? Break the walls and come see me, רבן יוחנן בן זכאי was maskim with that because he's going to break the walls because he's going to let Yerushalayim be destroyed. How could he break the walls? He doesn't have to break the walls. Now you don't understand what's going on. Break the walls means he's going to he's going to make sure Yerushalayim is destroyed. Because Vespasian said break the walls to come and see me. So רבן יוחנן בן זכאי agrees: I'm not going to break the walls, but you're going to break the walls. That's going to be the final thing. You understand what I'm saying? You're not with me. How would he one second, wait wait, you're not understanding what I'm saying. רבן יוחנן בן זכאי basically is going to is going to he's basically going to have Yerushalayim be destroyed. How? Vespasian's going to do it. We'll see in a little while, you're not ready. In a little while Vespasian's going to ask him what he wants, he's going to want Yavne and now you can go, he's going to let Yerushalayim be destroyed. So when Vespasian asked him you should have broken the walls to see me, right, רבן יוחנן בן זכאי was maskim with that except he's let Vespasian break the walls and he's not going to break the walls. That's why he was quiet. So Rabbi Yosef and Rabbi Akiva say that later on they're going to go and argue on him. You made the wrong decision. You should have sparked the Biryonim and tried to get them out of the way and then the walls would have remained. Are you with me? רבן יוחנן בן זכאי is going to trash Yerushalayim. He's going to trash it. So really what Vespasian says you should have broken the walls, רבן יוחנן בן זכאי is maskim I'm going to break the walls but you're going to break them for me. Is that clear? But you did speak to the Biryonim. No, he didn't. He just broke the Abba Sikra to get himself out. He didn't speak with the Biryonim. He spoke with the Abba Sikra. All the rabbis spoke to the Biryonim. They wanted the Biryonim to stop. But they didn't, they weren't maskim. On the contrary they burned all the wheat. But you're not with me. When Vespasian said break the walls, רבן יוחנן בן זכאי would have broken the walls but he didn't want to be the shliach, let them do it. That's what Rabbi Yosef was arguing on him. So he was quiet because really Vespasian was correct for a different reason. Okay, so now like this. But that was good. Why was that good? Because it lets Speisy win. It's good to let the guy win a little bit too. Okay, now. Okay, now. Ad d'hachi, while they're having this conversation, ata peristaka de-romi, a messenger comes from Rome. Amar leh, said to him, kum, arise, Spanyanos, d'meis lei keisar, the Caesar has died, ואמרי הנך חשיבי דרומי לאותיבך ברישא, and the notables of Rome said they want to make you the Caesar. Huh? So the Gemara says, הוי סיים חד מסאני, Vespasian put on, had put on one shoe. Ba'ei l'misyam achrini, he wanted to put on his right shoe and he was going to put on his left shoe. La'ayal, it wouldn't go on! Couldn't fit it on! בעי למשלף האידך, he was going to take off his other shoe and put on, lo nafak, it doesn't go off! It doesn't go off! So he's got one shoe on, one shoe off. So רבן יוחנן בן זכאי, amar mai hai? What's going on here? My shoe doesn't go on, 'cause it doesn't go on, it doesn't go off. אמר ליה לא תצטער, he says, ah, don't worry. Shemuah tovah asaloch, you heard good news. It says, שמועה טובה תדשן עצם, good news makes the bone thicker. Your foot got bigger. Ella mai takantei? So what do you do? לייתי אינש דלא סני לדעתיה ולחלוף קמך, bring a person that you hate and let him stand in front of you. ורוח נכאה תיבש גרם, because when you're depressed a little bit, then your bone shrinks. Avad hachi, ayal, so he brought somebody he doesn't like and he got the shoe on. Amar leh, ומאחר דחכימיתו כולי האי עד האידנא אמאי לא אתיתו לגבאי, so what are you guys, so smart? How come you didn't come to me earlier? אמר ליה ולא אמרי לך, did I say to, did I say, אמר ליה אנא נמי אמרי לך. Very good. אמר ליה מיזל אזילנא, I'm going. V'inish achrina meshadrana, I'm going to send somebody else, he's going to take my place. אלא בעי מינאי מידי דאעביד לך, whatever you want me to do for you, I'll do for you. Amar leh, says רבן יוחנן בן זכאי, I want three things. תן לי יבנה וחכמיה, I want you to spare the town of Yavneh and the chachamim of Yavneh. Shushilta d'Rabban Gamliel, spare the the the descendants of Rabban Gamliel. ואסותא דמסייא ליה לרבי צדוק, and get for me a doctor who can cure Rabbi Tzadok, he's been fasting 40 years because of the churban. קרי עליה רב יוסף ואיתימא רבי עקיבא, once again Rav Yosef or Rabbi Akiva says, משיב חכמים אחור ודעתם יסכל, God confuses the chachamim. איבעי ליה למימר לשבקינהו האי זימנא, he should have asked Vespasian to spare the city. But now the Gemara answers for Yochanan ben Zakkai, והוא סבר דילמא כולי האי לא עביד, to spare the city, maybe that would not have worked. והצלה פורתא נמי לא הוי, and we wouldn't have got even a little bit of hatzalah. In other words, he felt if he asked for too much, then they wouldn't give him anything. But he asked for these three things, right? Then that's fine. Then they'll give it to him. That was Rabban Yochanan, that was רבן יוחנן בן זכאי. Okay? Now what's interesting is, is that there's a there's a Gemara in Berachos. It's an interesting Gemara in Berachos. It speaks about this. Doesn't directly speak about it, but I'm telling you it speaks about this. The Gemara says, right? That... okay. The Gemara says, okay, one second. כי חלשה דעתיה דרבי בן בתירה... לא... כי חליש דעתיה דרבן יוחנן בן זכאי? כשחלה רבי יוחנן בן זכאי. כשחלה רבי יוחנן בן זכאי נכנסו תלמידיו לבקרו. רבי יוחנן בן זכאי was sick. This is he's about to, he's really going to die. So talmidim came to visit him. כיון שראם התחיל לבכות. When he saw them he began crying. Okay. Amru lo talmidav. So his talmidim said to him: Ner Yisrael, the flame of Israel, Amud hayemini, the right, the right column, Patish hachazak, the strong hammer, why are you crying? Why are you crying? אמר להם אילו לפני מלך בשר ודם מוליכין אותי שהיום כאן ומחר בקבר שאם כועס עלי אין כעסו כעס עולם ואם אוסרני אין איסורו איסור עולם ואם ממיתני אין מיתתו מיתת עולם ואני יכול לפייסו בדברים ולשחדו בממון אף על פי כן הייתי בוכה. If it was a king that's threatening me, when he threatens me, right, I can try to get out of it, I can pay him some money, and his anger will not last forever, right, nonetheless I would cry. ועכשיו שמוליכין אותי לפני מלך מלכי המלכים הקדוש ברוך הוא חי וקיים לעולם ולעולמי עולמים שאם כועס עלי כעסו כעס עולם ואם אוסרני איסורו איסור עולם ואם ממיתני מיתתו מיתת עולם ואיני יכול לפייסו בדברים ולא לשחדו בממון. Now they bring me to Hakadosh Baruch Hu, his anger is eternal. If he imprisons me, or sends me to Gehenom, it's eternal. And if he kills me, it's forever. I can't bribe him velo lishchado bemamon. And also I have shnei derachim in front of me: אחד של גן עדן ואחד של גיהנום. One road leads to Gan Eden, one road leads to Gehenom. ואיני יודע באיזו מוליכין אותי. And I don't know where they're going to take me, to Gan Eden or Gehenom. And shouldn't I cry? That means a tzaddik of his depth was afraid of maybe going to Gehenom. Not to be hashkafic, but isn't the idea of Gehenom not eternal? What? Isn't the idea of like he's saying, you know, I'm going to go to Gehenom forever? It's a machlokes on that, but even if he goes to Gehenom he might come out, a little bit come back in again, but it's called eternal because it's the next world. אמרו לו רבנו ברכנו. Give us a bracha. אמר להם יהי רצון שתהא מורא שמים עליכם כמורא בשר ודם. אמרו לו תלמידיו עד כאן. אמר להם ולואי שתהא מורא שמים עליכם כמורא בשר ודם שהרי אדם עובר עבירה ואומר שלא יראני אדם. The fear of Heaven should be like your fear, just like you fear people, you want to, you don't want to do something forbidden in front of people, same too when you're private, Hakadosh Baruch Hu. בשעת פטירתו אמר להם פנו כלים מפני הטומאה. Take the kelim out of the house because of tuma because I'm going to be dying soon. והכינו כסא לחזקיהו מלך יהודה שבא. And prepare a chair for Chizkiyahu, he's coming to accompany me. What's Chizkiyahu doing here? Right? So I want to say a pshat in the Gomara like this. רבי יוחנן בן זכאי was faced with, he had to make an important decision: Do I save all of Yerushalayim? And there I'm taking a very big risk. Or do I let it be destroyed and I try to save what I feel I can save? Turns out there was another person in Jewish history who had to make a fine decision: Chizkiyahu. When Sancheriv came to conquer the aseres hashevatim, Chizkiyahu had to make a decision: Should I try to engage drawn out war to save the aseres hashevatim who are a bunch of mushchasim, ovdei avoda zara, shefichas damim? Right? Should I save them and prevent the galus or no? I shouldn't try to help them, I should stay where I am. He made the same decision. And that's what he did. He didn't try to lend them a hand. Because of that the aseres hashevatim was sent to galus and Chizkiyahu was able to maintain the malchus in Yehuda. Okay? And we see at the end we see in Nach that he made the right decision. In fact, the Gomara even goes to say that he was the, there's the opinion of Rav Hillel that he was the Moshiach. I want to say, this is רבי יוחנן בן זכאי's. You just understand he doesn't know where he's going to go: Gan Eden, Gehinnom? He made the probably the right decision. What happens? When Chizkiyahu comes and he's going to accompany him, like Rashi says, he feels he made the right decision. That's the Pshat. Derech agev, I want to say, what does it mean take the Kelim out of the house? So maybe really if you made the wrong decision, it's like a Mumar, it's like an Oved Avodah Zarah, the Halacha is that they're not Metameh tumat ohel. So he takes the Kelim out, it means I'm Metameh tumat ohel. 'Cause only a thing which has Kedusha can Metameh tumat ohel. Now it's interesting, he says, the Talmidei ask him to give a Bracha. What's the Bracha? That your Yirat shamayim should be like your Yirat basar vedam. That's the Bracha. What's the Bracha doing? When you make a decision, don't think of what people think. Do what you feel is right. Zecharya, Rabbi Yosef and Rabbi Akiva are saying that he made the wrong decision, this and that. I did what I felt was right. And that's the Bracha, that your Yirat shamayim should not be governed by people what people think what people look what you doing. It should be what you really do is right. That's the Bracha that he gave them. Okay? Okay. Now, there's a I want to mention, I just want to mention one more thing too, okay? I think we're going to finish here. It's interesting, משיב חכמים אחור ודעתם יסכל. So in other words, so Rabbi Akiva is saying is that he made Hakadosh Baruch Hu Hakadosh Baruch Hu confused he'll confuse Meshiv chachamim he'll confuse the minds of Chachamim. That means that sometimes if Hakadosh Baruch Hu wants to bring on something, wants to bring on a Churban, so he'll confuse the minds of Chachamim so that basically the Ratzon Hashem will be accomplished. That's really what they're saying. That's really what they're saying. In other words, משיב חכמים אחור ודעתם יסכל means they felt that really the right decision would have been to ask for Yerushalayim. But Hakadosh Baruch Hu felt that the Ratzon Hashem that there's going to be a Churban right now. And since it's going to be a Churban, Hakadosh Baruch Hu somehow confused him. Right? And on this the Gemara so it's interesting, the first time when they ask this question, there's no answer. But the second time they ask the question, there's an answer: who Savar. So how come you don't ask him the first time? So I claim that's the Maskana that's an Emet's Gemara in Brachot. The first is a Hava amina maybe he made the wrong decision. The Gemara didn't answer. But then after the Gemara relates what happened, that he says Chizkiyahu is coming to greet me, right? Then the Gemara can say, no, who Savar. He held, in other words, what was his Svara. His Svara is is that he feels he can always save a little bit. If he's going to save a lot, it's not going to work, they won't give him a little bit. But really what is the Yesod? I think that the Yesod is a very important as we spoke about this, is that רבי יוחנן בן זכאי held that already the very fact that the destruction was imminent and the Goiyim were going to destroy the temple, so the Nefesh Hachaim says, how can the Goiyim destroy the Beis Hamikdash, something which is spiritual? He speaks about Titus, Titus had already destroyed the Beis Hamikdash. Gemara speaks about it later on. So says the Nefesh Hachaim in Shaar Aleph, I think it's Perek Vav, is that as a result of the sins of Klal Yisrael, the Beis Hamikdash lost its sanctity. Just bricks and wood. And that's what Titus and he brings a Midrash. Midrash says he ground he ground that Titus ground a ground meat, ground wheat. The meat was already ground was already ground already. Which means רבי יוחנן בן זכאי understood there's no Kedusha anymore. The Kedusha now has to move to Yavne. Right? So in other words, in Yavne, right? Now, he asked for three things. What are the three things? He asked number one for תן לי יבנה וחכמיה, which is important because why תן לי יבנה וחכמיה? So long as there's a Beis HaMikdash, so psak halacha needs to be based upon ruach hakodesh. Like let's explain Kiddush Hachodesh. Now, there's no Beis HaMikdash, there can't really be ruach hakodesh. And because of that we need we have to emphasize chacham adif minavi. תן לי יבנה וחכמיה. That's number one. So we have a little bit of a we have a shift from ruach hakodesh to what's called chochma. It's talk of this, it's talk of this originally in the first Beis HaMikdash, but it was the same thing too, you know. Yavne was a place of a lot of chochma. It was not ruach hakodesh, it was a lot of chochma. That's number one. Now, what's the second? He wanted... so... he wanted... he asked for three things. One was תן לי יבנה וחכמיה, right? Shushilta d'Rabban Gamliel. Why Shushilta d'Rabban Gamliel? Because Rabban Gamliel comes really from the really from Hillel, from Dovid HaMelech. There has to be a figure of authority. You don't have a melech anymore. But they needed Rabban Gamliel would give the authority to the Torah. In other words, before that you have the Beis HaMikdash, right? You have the Beis HaMikdash, maybe the melech, Beis HaMikdash. Now he needed chochma, he needed a figure of authority. A figure of authority at that time has to be someone with yichus. That's why the Gemara says in Berachos כ\"ז ע\"ב they wouldn't make Rabbi Akiva the head of the Sanhedrin because he didn't have the proper yichus. They made Elazar ben Azarya she'asiri l'ezra. In other words, he needed someone with yichus. That's what he wanted. Now, why did he want a rofeh, a doctor, to cure Rabbi Tzadok? And Rabbi Tzadok was fasting. So he felt that up until now there was an inyan to davven that the Beis HaMikdash wouldn't be destroyed. Now the Beis HaMikdash now is going to be destroyed. In fact it's probably not worth davvening for. So now we have to... in addition to that, we need a... now why a doctor to cure him? Why a doctor to cure him? One seen the same thing too. Same thing too is we see that with the lack of the... it's not a Beis HaMikdash, right? And there's less Shechina in the world, we have to go bederech hateva. That's what he wanted to say. So you have the chochma in Torah, we need the figurehead of Rabban Gamliel, and we have to go bederech hateva. And we have to now, right? The rabbis are not doctors. Some many rabbis think they're doctors, but they're not doctors. We have to go bederech hateva. Right? Anyway, that's רבן יוחנן בן זכאי. How could Rabbi Akiva think that... how could he disagree with רבן יוחנן בן זכאי? What? Rabbi Akiva says it's not a good decision to abandon Yerushalayim. Right, and he felt the Beis HaMikdash... oh it's very very interesting. I was... I was hoping and not hoping someone would ask me that question. But since you asked me that question I'm going to read you from the Rambam. Can you repeat the question? He asked the question... it seems that רבן יוחנן בן זכאי's opinion was that we have to abandon Yerushalayim to go to Yavne, and the Gemara says that Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Yose say they disagree with that, they said he shouldn't, he should've... he could've kept Yerushalayim. Okay, the question is how could they hold that? I see that someone... is there... is there... is there the Rambam, I think I need yud bais, I need Melachim in the Rambam. Okay, this is the Rambam. I want to read you about Rabbi Akiva. The Gemara says... the Rambam says in Perek Yud Aleph in Hilchos Melachim: אל יעלה על דעתך שהמלך המשיח צריך לעשות אותות ומופתים. Don't think the Mashiach has to make miracles. ומחדש דברים בעולם או מחיה מתים. Or he has to resurrect the dead. וכיוצא בדברים אלו שהטפשים אומרים. Like the idiots think he's going to do all these things. Ein hadavar ken. It's not true. שהרי רבי עקיבא חכם גדול מחכמי משנה היה. Rabbi Akiva was a chochom from Chachmei HaMishna. והוא היה נושא כליו של בן כוזיבא המלך. And he carried the arms of Bar Kochba. והוא אמר עליו שהוא המלך המשיח. And he said of him that he's the Melech HaMashiach. ודימה הוא וכל חכמי דורו שהוא המלך. And he and all the sages of his generation thought he's the King until he was killed. because of aveiros. When he was killed they knew he wasn't mashiach. Very interesting that we see over here that the Gemara says, the Gemara in Sanhedrin, Rabbi Akiva was docheis es haketz. He wanted very much the mashiach should come. And he made a mistake. So it's interesting, how can he make a mistake in these things, right? Rabbi Akiva! So there's a Gemara in Samech Zayin in Sanhedrin, vattal hatzfardaya, right, by the makkas mitzrayim, vattal hatzfardaya. Amar Rabbi Akiva, nu, there was one big tzfardaya achas gedolah, there's one big frog, right, King Kong, Godzilla, ותכס את כל ארץ מצרים, it covered all of Mitzrayim. אמר ליה רבי אלעזר בן עזריה, Akiva, shut up! Shtik! kalah midibrosecha! מה לך אצל הגדות? What are you dashning aggadetah? לך אצל נגעים ואהלות, go sit and learn Nega'im and Ohalos. What's the pshat? Rabbi Akiva was a tremendous gadol, I mean the Gemara says, Moshe Rabbeinu says, right, זו תורה וזו שכרה, Moshe Rabbeinu thought why is he's bigger than I am. But that's in Torah and Halacha. Sometimes in hanhagah, the per-, I'm going to say this, it's controversial, but I don't care. There's something called Torah and hanhagah, it's Torah and it's called hanhagah. Sometimes the gadol hador in Torah is not necessarily the person who can bring Klal Yisrael to an hanhagah. That's the pshat with Rabbi Akiva. That's the pshat with Rabbi Akiva. Rabbi Akiva felt that, you know, Rabbi Akiva, I mean what can we speak about Rabbi Akiva? But that's the pshat over here. Rabbi Akiva felt that you know, just like I, besofo shel davar, you know this, I think he's called, the Gemara somewhere calls he's docheh, he's pushing, pushing the liberation, the, es haketz, pushing the redemption. Sometimes we can't, how should I say it, sometimes we have to, we have to treat levels of things a little bit differently. See רבי יוחנן בן זכאי was more aware to the fact and metzius of what was going on. And I want to say that's the pshat. Why did Rabbi Akiva say that? Because to bring a rayah that he's backing Bar Kochba. They said to him, Rabbi Akiva, what are you doing something like this, backing Bar Kochba? You're fighting the Romans. Look, רבי יוחנן בן זכאי said I'm not going to fight the Romans. He made a mistake! Hakadosh Baruch Hu confused them! That's the, that was the context in which he said it. He wasn't learning the pshat, he wasn't giving a shiur in Mechon Shlomo on the aggadetah of Kamtza u'Bar Kamtza. They said, Rabbi Akiva, why are you doing to back Bar Kochba? He's a crazy guy! And of course even if he's not a crazy guy, how can you fight the Roman Empire? Look at רבי יוחנן בן זכאי, you see that you can't fight them. He says no, Hakadosh Baruch Hu will confuse them! meshib chachamim achor! And I'm not confused. That's the, that's the pshat in the statement. Okay, I think we'll stop over here. Okay? There's a lot more, but I think we...